Saratoga Springs, Utah

First off, I completely understand your frustratio...

2008-06-10T21:23:00.000-07:00

First off, I completely understand your frustration. I would be just as angry as you are if I were in your seat. I am going to feel any increase in taxes and fees just like everyone else (and I'm currently living on an intern's salary). I can promise you that sitting up there while resident after resident chewed us out was very difficult. On top of that, I have the flu and was up all night last night throwing up. So needless to say, I'm pretty hammered. I did want to address your point about the pay increases. I can promise you that no city staff is getting a pay raise. No one is even getting a cost of living increase. One council member made a proposal at the beginning of the budget discussions to make a 10% across the board cut to all employees. That council member, after researching our service levels and pay of comparable cities, took that off the table. We are still looking at a variety of different options right now to cut the budget. What you saw tonight was not the final budget. We will be spending a good portion of time over the next week hammering out every detail and exploring every option that we have (including the options that were brought up by residents). In regards to not voting for me, I could care less. I am not planning on running again. I've put so much of my life into this because I thought I could make a difference. If tonight is any indication, it's not worth it. I would recommend that you spend more time at council meetings to see what we do. If you think you can do a better job, I would strongly encourage you to run. We need passionate people in there. One other note, the council asked numerous times to the staff if we were prepared for a slowdown in housing. We were assured by our professional staff that we would be okay. That being said, no one could anticipate as strong of a decline as we had. But we did ask and thought the staff had done the necessary research. Unfortunately I do have a full time job and can't spend all of my time micromanaging every detail of the city. I would suggest that anyone that does have the time and experience to get involved and help come up with solutions, rather than just criticize those that are doing their best.

I am outraged about the council meeting tonight. I...

2008-06-10T20:51:00.000-07:00

I am outraged about the council meeting tonight. I will never vote for any of you members again. I will campaign against everyone of you. I know for a fact that the City Employees are going to receive raises this year, you out right lied to the people. They were to have a 10% salary decrease. Now its up to us to raise our taxes to pay for it. I never received a raise this year, why should they at my families expense. I hope you can sleep at night, because your worthless. I'm moving out of this city, the city managers and council have no idea how to run a town. I advise everyone in this town to move to a town that knows what they're doing. My taxes are going to be more now than when I lived in east side of Sandy, Way to go Council.

[A] wise and frugal government... shall restrain m...

2008-06-10T19:13:00.000-07:00

[A] wise and frugal government... shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.

Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801

I'm great with having our own police department. ...

2008-06-10T12:06:00.000-07:00

I'm great with having our own police department. That is what taxes should pay for.

Imagine, if you will, a water balloon that is attached to a faucet. It is full, but slowly, there are holes poked into it. Some necessary, some not necessary. After time, more holes are poked in it. So the ballon begins to drain and shrink. What is the right solution? What is broken? Is the faucet broken? Is the balloon broken? Are there too many holes? The problem lies in the holes. To refill the balloon, you don't turn the faucet on higher. It's not the faucet that is broken, but the balloon. The balloon needs fixing. Holes need to be plugged.

Our city is that balloon. We need to fix the problem at the root. I can go without perks from the city. What in the city expenditures is OPTIONAL? If it is optional, TAKE IT OUT! No one wants to have city perks, AND high property taxes. Why do we continually think that taxes are the answer? Smaller government is the answer.

Now, I have a question...Is Saratoga Splash paid for by the city? If so, how much does it cost the city? CUT IT! I think it's a great activity just like everyone else, but I can go without it if I can save myself from paying higher taxes.

Please, Saratoga Springs, don't get into the tax war. Yes, there are justified reasons for taxing. Police and Fire are a few of them. But we should never be raising taxes to pay for optional programs unless THOSE THAT PAY THE TAXES are the ones who choose to do so. This is NOT your money. It is the money of hard working individuals. Your job is to be good stewards of other's sacrifices and contributions, whether voluntary or involuntary.

Yeah, well try being one of the police officers th...

2008-06-09T22:37:00.000-07:00

Yeah, well try being one of the police officers they hired. I moved my entire family down here. And yes, under the premise that "we're going to boom", "we're gonna need the 'best of the best'", and "we're willing to pay for experienced professionals, who can help build this wonderful city". These were words told to all of us on the force. NOT ONE of us had to leave our various agencies. We did, because, like you, we saw a vision for this city. We wanted to grow and increase with everyone else. Many of us took a chance. Now all we seem to hear is- "well....we shouldn't have done the police department thingy." IT WOULD'VE COST THE CITY THE SAME REGARDLESS. (And likely more. The County is upping their fees. Next year Eagle Mountain can count on about a $2.2M tab for their albeit limited services.)

I am too very invested in this city. I, too, am a resident. I, too, am your neighbor. I, too, care that my taxes will likely go up. I, too, want the City to account for these tough times. But frankly- lay off our department. A $100K difference between our own force, as opposed to the County, does NOT a $1.7M deficit make! Sorry. It just doesn't.

So, in reality...I'd prefer that when I have a crisis at my home, MY police force (my neighbors) respond to my house, in my time of need, in the current 5-7min. response time. The County's average was in the teens-twenty minute range- yikes!

Take the time to get more informed.

THIS is what I'm talking about! This is what our p...

2008-06-09T22:22:00.000-07:00

THIS is what I'm talking about! This is what our police officers are doing. We've seen countless arrests of criminals doing things in our city (most of them don't even live here), and they're solving these cases! This is something the County wouldn't even spend any time on. I think they're great! The cost for our PD is about the same as the County. Our services are a hundred times better! Way to go- again!

It wouldn't matter if you had police service by yo...

2008-06-09T22:19:00.000-07:00

It wouldn't matter if you had police service by your own force or the County. The price tag is roughly the same. We are getting much better service from our own police than we ever dreamed of from the County. So, this notion that if the PD goes away, our problems are solved is- FALSE.

There isn't a business in this town that doesn't h...

2008-06-09T20:27:00.000-07:00

There isn't a business in this town that doesn't have people talking about what a mess this town is in..My home appraised for $30,000 less than I bought it for 2year ago..and you talk about raising taxes? I'm a single mom with 3 kids, and I go to bed every night worrying if we will have a place to live in 3 months. I'm maxed out now with all my bills. Who is big enough to admit the mistakes? From what I'm hearing it was someone who talked the council into bringing the Police Dept. in. Is this true? Is the council going to do anything about this? Please don't take a deaf ear to this.

Thank you for this clarification on the payscale o...

2008-06-08T12:06:00.000-07:00

Thank you for this clarification on the payscale of our city's employees and your stance reagrding it.

I do realize how much time council members spend discharging their duties, and know it cannot possibly be for the money, but for a genuine concern for the community. And for that, I again thank you, especially with regards to this year's budget and the delima's the City is now facing.

Please accept my apology if I came off as confrontational. It was not my intent. I have never felt the City made the right choice with going to their own Polic force, so with 20/20 hindsight, it's an easy target. I have never attended a Council meeting in the past, and as such have little room for complaint without having voiced my concern beforehand.

I would lastly like to wish you, along with the rest of the Council, the best of luck is completing the budget Tuesday night.

I apologize if my comment sounded like I was attac...

2008-06-08T11:35:00.000-07:00

I apologize if my comment sounded like I was attacking your integrity. I only meant that if someone is making these type of recommendations, the least they could do is say who they are. In regards to the 10% cut across the board, I was one of the first that disagreed with this. A fellow council member made the suggestion, and I didn't agree with it. Like I mentioned on the city council pay, I think we should use other cities of comparable size as a benchmark for us. As a council, we made the decision last year to be competitive in pay. We have taken very good care of our employees. I can provide you with a detailed comparison of our city and cities that are close to ours and you will see that we are paying on the high end of the pay scale. Most cities are going through a similar situation. Some cities (like Provo) are suggesting even bigger cuts than what we are. We want to retain our great employees, but we need to evaluate their pay relative to comparable cities. That is all I was trying to explain with my post about the council pay.

That's telling. You respond by questioning MY inte...

2008-06-08T11:26:00.000-07:00

That's telling. You respond by questioning MY integrity and then argue to protect your pay. I expect no more from polititians which is why I remained anonymous.

First off, it really says alot about someone that ...

2008-06-08T10:03:00.000-07:00

First off, it really says alot about someone that makes this type of post to leave it anonymous. Step and and say who you are. In regards to your comments, I think that we have been seriously looking at our police department and evaluating the cost. As I have posted, we have asked the chief and staff to evaluate how much our department costs in relation to what our cost would be with the Sheriff's department (since those are the only two options we have). We have been told that Eagle Mountain is paying $1.7. Our Chief has assured in us that we will be about $1.8. I believe that the level of service they provide is worth the additional costs. In regards to the other departments, I believe that we have been asking the same questions. We have asked for service levels compared to other cities and have evaluated our pay relative to theirs. In regards to your point regarding council pay, I believe we should make the same comparison. If we took the same approach as we do for how we pay our staff, the council would receive pay raises. Not only are we on the low end, but we meet every single Tuesday. No other council that I know of does that. By dropping the pay of city council, even less people would be willing to do the job (especially under the current circumstances). I have worked it out that I'm being paid about $6 an hour for the time that I spend on city council duties. Over the last few weeks, I'm guessing its lower than that.

It just seems a bit out of balance to see our poli...

2008-06-07T20:46:00.000-07:00

It just seems a bit out of balance to see our police force comprise nearly a thrid of the City's budget, and then turn to other departments and ask them to fire employees and cut back benefits for the remianing employees. I have no disrespect for the Police Department and am sure they do a fine job. But I still question why it was so necessary for us to have our own force. Now I can expect to have our parks neglected as we're cutting their budgets, but I'll be happy that our police are overstaffed. My neighbor currently cuts the lawn in our neighborhood park, and I suppose he'll have to just do more work so our neighborhood wil look nice.

What I'd really like to see is a comparison of the percentage of the City's total budgetwe spend on law enforcement with places that actually have a crime problem. Frankly, the crime we do have consists of traffic violations and vandalism. Now, if our 250% tax increase was put toward a recreation center instead of the police, the youth would have better things to do than vandalize.

I also am really concerned with the suggestion that the City reduces the wages of City employees by 10% across the board. These are people who are suffering like the rest of us with increased costs everywhere, and we are doing them a real disservice by asking them to subsidize our police department because of the Council's lack of forsight. I would rather see the Council (who are responsible for the Police Depatment) give up the pay they receive as Council members. At the least they should be willing to share the pain.

I will bring this up to our police chief to respon...

2008-06-06T15:47:00.000-07:00

I will bring this up to our police chief to respond. The point I was making is that Eagle Mountain is paying $1.7 million for their service. According to our police chief, we will be close to paying $1.8 million. I understand that Eagle Mountain has more residents than we do. I've asked our chief and staff to put together an assessment of what our service would cost if we were still with the Sheriff's department. If we are close to that, I think it is worth the additional investment to have our own department. I feel that we have many advantages by having our own department. I'm not knocking the Sheriff's department. They were great while we had them. But I think that having our own department gives some consistency. It helps to have officers that are full time in our city. They get out in the community more and get to know the residents. They spend more time doing neighborhood activities. I've heard from many of our residents that we have a great department and that they notice a difference. That is why I feel that we are getting a good bang for the buck. Now if the data that we've received regarding the difference in cost between us and the Sheriff's department is incorrect, than I might question that. I'll have to look into that information. I do appreciate you providing that info and asking me.

According to Mr. Ifo Pili, with Eagle Mountain Cit...

2008-06-06T15:26:00.000-07:00

According to Mr. Ifo Pili, with Eagle Mountain City, we spend approximately $200 per resident on our Police force, while they spend $100 with the Sheriff's Dept. So, if that information is correct, I would disagree that we get a better bang for our buck. In fact I would strongly disagree.

thanks!

2008-06-05T10:27:00.000-07:00

thanks!

Sorry, I should have included that discussion as w...

2008-06-05T09:53:00.000-07:00

Sorry, I should have included that discussion as well. We went over their budget and their long range plan. When we brought on our Fire Chief, the intent was to hire 3 captains. With the current budget situation, we can't do that this year. The discussion was mostly about the level of service we are currently receiving and whether or not we are meeting the minimum level needed. We discussed what the cost difference would be between hiring full time versus on call. The data that he presented will all be posted on the city's website, as well as the additional information we asked for. Again, right now we are just trying to gather all the data to evaluate.

Any word on the status of the fire department?

2008-06-05T09:34:00.000-07:00

Any word on the status of the fire department?

Kevin, I completely agree with you. In fact, I've...

2008-06-04T08:59:00.000-07:00

Kevin,

I completely agree with you. In fact, I've been criticized because I keep drawing parallels to private business. I think that we should treat the city in the same way. We should live within our means and make the most out of every dollar. My first reaction was to do whatever was necessary to balance the budget. I have been pushing to eliminate as much as we can that isn't absolutely necessary. The hard part is that we might just be in a lull. Our housing has declined significantly (although we are already seeing it pick back up some), but our commercial is really taking off. The unfortunate thing is that we don't generate as much revenue up front from the commercial as we do the residential. However, next year we will see a significant jump in sales tax revenue from the commercial. So the concern now is cutting too deep to where we won't be able to service the commercial growth in our city. I think the best thing for you and other residents would be to see the data that our department heads have prepared for us on their individual budgets. I've pushed hard for staff to post it on the city site. If they don't get it up soon, I can email it all to you. It's all public information and I feel strongly in opening up that information for the public. I can bring up the concept of a bond to the council. I'm hoping that when we look at all the options and make some additional cuts, that we see that $50 a month dropped to much less. If we can squeek by this year, we should be okay next year with the increase revenue from the commercial. In regards to poor planning, I agree that we should have been better prepared for this. We asked staff on numerous occasions over the last two years about how prepared we were if there was a housing slump. We received assurances that they had looked at the numbers and that we would be okay with some minor layoffs. The problem was, no one was looking at this drastic of a scenario. Our single family permits went from 746 last year to only 46 so far this year (which will probably hit 100 by the end of this year). I think staff was looking at a worst case scenario of our housing dropping in half (which based on the previous 7 years was a drastic drop). I will promise that I will continue to do whatever I can to get the deficit down. Again, I just don't want to do something that has a worse effect on the city in the long run. I hope that answers your question. I'd love to continue to get your input. I'll email the council on any suggestions that you have.

The tax amount will change based on the proposals ...

2008-06-04T08:57:00.000-07:00

The tax amount will change based on the proposals that are being discussed. Because we haven't decided yet which cuts will be made, I don't have an exact number. I have talked with staff and they are planning on giving us a better idea of what the tax amount will be on average if we make additional cuts. I'll post any of this data as soon as I recieve it.

The city offices are located directly behind smith...

2008-06-04T08:55:00.000-07:00

The city offices are located directly behind smiths in the office complex. Our office is on the second story of the northern building.

Regarding tolls and fees, have you been able to fi...

2008-06-03T16:10:00.000-07:00

Regarding tolls and fees, have you been able to find anything out about the recycling service? Originally we were promised once per week for $5 per month. Lack of signups got that service reduced to 2x per month for the same $5. I'd like to know if there are enough people signing up that we could get our service back to once per week, as originally promised by Marsha Paskett.

Thanks.

Jefferson-Thanks for this blog. It's really fantas...

2008-06-03T16:08:00.000-07:00

Jefferson-

Thanks for this blog. It's really fantastic.

Regarding the budget, I'd just like to pose an idea. When my taxes or cost of living go up or I budget poorly, I can't just go to my employer and request a raise to make up for my problems.

I don't like the fact that a government can go straight to their employer, the people, and demand a raise to make up their shortfall.

Now, I know taxes have to be raised from time to time. However, in this instance, I don't like that residents may have to make up for multiple years of inadequate budget forecasts in one year.

Is it at all possible for the city to take out a bond, and then set up a schedule for tax increases over the next few years? For example, long-term, say the city would need to increase taxes and fees 20% to make up a shortfall and fund expected shortfalls over the next 5 years. Couldn't the city take out a bond, and then inform the residents up front that taxes and fees will increase 5% per year for the next 5 years to balance the budget and pay for the bond? It seems much easier to swallow than a $750 increase per year per household.

Has the status of the projected tax raise changed?...

2008-06-01T19:05:00.000-07:00

Has the status of the projected tax raise changed? Any idea of when we will see it?

Thanks for the detailed status update on the budge...

2008-06-01T18:47:00.000-07:00

Thanks for the detailed status update on the budget. I'm glad that we have you around and that you are advocating for small government.

I was intending to come out to one of these council meetings. Are they held every Tuesday? Also, where are they held? I'm fairly new to Saratoga Springs, and don't know my way around much :)

I really benefit from reading this blog and especially appreciate the content you post. Thanks for all your work!

Tim